Celebrating Life on National Coming Out Day With Ann Thomas, Emmett Preciado, and Zoey Luna
Today, October 11th is National Coming Out Day. It is a day of freedom and light for many LGBTQ+ individuals, encouraging them to talk with family and friends about their sexuality, which is life-changing. Many people also celebrate the liberation spirit through flags and pins, not just in the United States, but also in Ireland, Switzerland, the Netherlands, and the UK, where the day is recognized. To tell you a little more about this huge moment in people's lives, how it can change and save a life, Jejune had the pleasure to interview a team of talented and inspiring transgender actors. Starting from Ann Thomas, founder of the first transgender-owned and operated talent management company based in Orange County, followed by Emmett Preciado and Zoey Luna. Please check our interviews below.
ANN THOMAS
Where are you based?
Orange County, California.
What are your pronouns?
She/her
You are a talent manager, a scientist, an advocate, a guiding force, and the founder of the first transgender-owned and operated talent management company. Could you tell us how everything started and what inspired you to start this company?
This could be a book about each topic! Back in high school, I began doing special projects, which culminated in me being a technical director for a large theater show. I then went to college in a TV production program, and at the same time, started a TV production company with a partner. I shut down the TV production company after a couple of years, and I continued in theater for about 25 years for various companies. I came to southern California in late 2009, and shortly after that, I saw an ad looking for a transgender actor. I applied, and they responded that I needed to be a serious actor with significant training (25+ years in the theater was not good enough even to land an audition). They added that there were only - maybe - a dozen transgender actors nationwide that they could find, and those folks had been doing all the trans roles for a couple of decades — they needed new blood. In 2014 I ended up cast in the largest group of transgender people ever on camera in a single scene – the 197 members trans choir in episode 607 on Glee. I was placed right behind Dot-Marie Jones in the set, and afterward, was asked if I could help collect their information, so it would be easier for casting to find trans people. Thus Transgender Talent was born. We started with somewhere around 35 folks. We held auditioning classes with CSA a year later, and 70 pretty serious trans actors showed up for that. The following year CSA did an open casting call for trans actors, and about 500 showed up. I recently contacted CSA to see how many there were now, and it’s around 5,000 (although they’re not verified). What we have on our roster is only a tiny portion of the actors now. We’re trying to sign the best we can find to be at Hollywood’s professional standards for performers.
Could you tell us about your transition? Were the people in your life supportive?
Transitioning was a mixed bag of good and bad experiences. I was living in a remote rural town, very conservative, and feared for my safety. The US is supposed to be the “land of the free,” yet if you don’t look, act, and sound like the people in your community, you get ostracized. I eventually lost my career, business, property investments, and about half my family due to transitioning. I ended up homeless for a while. One of the biggest supporters was the late Dr. John Olsen, who put me through training in waterjet machining at his company right before I moved to southern California. When I got here, at the time, I was one of only a tiny handful of waterjet machinists with an actual factory in depth training. I quickly rose to the top of the industry, ended up in a union metal fabrication shop, and was very much supported by the union. The union president actually visited our shop one day and came over and talked to me privately at length. I was the only transgender person in the union, and he wanted to make sure I was protected and respected. He gave me his card and cell number and told me to contact him if I ever had any trouble. My work is visible all over Disneyland, some at Knott’s Berry Farm, Universal Studios, and in public places and private homes throughout Southern California. The shop went out of business a few years ago, at which time I went full time into running Transgender Talent, helped by my fantastic assistant Kendra.
What was it like coming out to your father as your father came out to you?
It was a profoundly moving experience. On the one hand, it was incredibly frightening, and yet, on the other hand, it was very liberating. In retrospect, I wish I had known far sooner, or at least had a better understanding of what I needed to ask, and what I could learn from him. His story was a lot like mine, with what we both went through physically and roughly the same ages. Like many, we both knew we were different before we reached puberty. We both struggled and explored gender throughout our lives. The big difference is that he could never live openly for fear of the reactions from people around us. He took it to his grave. His life has inspired me to run my company. I don’t want people in the future growing up and having to hide and live lives that are not authentic. It’s genetic, or at the very least, physical in origin. We don’t choose to be this way – why would we, and at such a young age, how would we even know to make that choice? So why do others who are heterosexual and very binary get to live their lives with no questioning of who they are, and yet they don’t want us to?
What kind of hardships do transgender people face?
We face far more hardships than most people realize. Too many throw us out of jobs, religious organizations, housing, school, and worst of all, families. The devastation of being thrown out of a family at a young age can be lifelong. It impacts the ability to learn, not just in school, but also in pursuing one’s dreams. It clearly sends the message that the family does not operate on love, even if the family and their religious teachings claim otherwise. “The trans person can just go somewhere else!” the family or religion can claim. But if that reasoning is systemic, all doors become closed, and there is nowhere else to go nearby, and in some parts of the country, this systemic reasoning is in effect. Some feel that death is the only escape from the hatred being vented towards them. Yet, in our hearts, we know we’re living an authentic life, and science has proven that over and over.
Do you still work as a scientist? How welcoming has the science world been to you?
The science people I have worked with over the years have, for the most part, been very, very supportive. They’ve had lots of good questions for me but have never been hostile towards me. I think that’s what made them great scientists. A few who were wonderful to work with were Dr. John Olsen, with whom I share a patent in water treatment, and Dr. Joe Walker, with whom I did alternative fuel research. I will never cease working in science when the right situation comes along. However, I’m focused on navigating Hollywood now!
It is pretty amazing that you created a Transgender Patient Care module to better help medical staff work with transgender patients. What did you find the response to this?
We were originally asked to bring in transgender actors as standardized patients for the students to interview. Using standardized patients, played by actors, has been used for many decades to train medical students worldwide. The UCLA standardized patient department realized quite quickly that there was no way to encapsulate “transgender” into a single patient with the wide range of actors that I sent in. So, we went to work together to create a program that would expose the students to the broadest range of trans folks that we could possibly put together each year. Every year, UCLA interviews the students before and after each course and before and after each module. I’m told ours is consistently voted the second-best for the entire second year of schooling, plus nearly everyone has a significant increase in knowledge and understanding of transgender patients. The module that gets first place every year has been the sex worker module, as it is also very well done, demystifying people that every medical worker will run into throughout their careers.
What are some of the major takeaways from the module?
We have trans people who are old, young, as many ethnicities as possible, at different education levels (from no high school diploma through earned doctorate degrees), income levels, with other gender expressions and experiences. Most have had bad experiences with the medical industry, and they share their stories; this way, the students can learn what to do and what not to do with transgender patients. This shows the vast diversity that a student can run into during their practice. There’s very roughly the same number of trans folks as there are people with naturally red hair worldwide, so this is how often they might expect to run into a transgender person at a clinic. It’s likely going to happen someday, so now at least they know what questions to ask and realize we’re people too.
At Jejune, we see more than work; we see you and your career as an inspiration and a breakthrough for a society that is still growing and learning every day. How do you believe that your own path and career help other transgender people?
I hope I inspire them to flourish in all they do! Once a person begins to lead an authentic life, in general, that’s what happens. But, the society they’re in may not appreciate that and want to stop them. I hope that trans people can realize they have great value in just who they are!
Transgender Talent was founded in 2015 to provide its clients with all the tools they need to get started in the business. Could you describe a few ways that your agency supports its clients? What are your goals for Transgender Talent?
We help all people to get started by providing the tools needed on our website, regardless of who they are. It starts with having all the essential materials to validate a person’s claims as a performer. Way too many people come to Hollywood (or are there already) and claim to be fantastic performers, yet they don’t know how to convey that in a way that actually gets them jobs. So, the instructions for headshots, resumes, and reels can be found on our website, with documents that people can download.
Once they have that all together and get in touch with us through our Contact Form, we check their performance quality. If it meets basic industry standards, we move forward with connecting with them. What they put together might not be perfect, so we help them refine it, advising how to get their materials right. Once that’s done, we then try to match them with an agent and agency that would be the right fit for them and use the materials the person came up with to do so. Currently, we work with 14 agents over five agencies, and we are expanding.
We know that it’s not just skills, but personality, and how that connects with representation, that is of utmost importance. The agent has to be excited about the performer, or they won’t pitch them effectively. So we try our best to open doors for folks. Some can take a while to get an agent, and others get one very rapidly. But it’s not just one agent a performer might need – they might need several, one for each area of skill. Then, we help find other team members to work with, such as a publicist, designers, etc. Our goals are to get our performers to levels where awards come easily, and projects approach us in the formative stages to help get financing through the audience the performer will bring. I hope that in the not too distant future, transgender people will be respected for their skills and personality rather than just being a check box that gets the project a tax break for hiring us. We’d also like to provide a place for our clients to do auditions, do recording sessions, and more that they can’t do where they live. Too many transgender performers are not in a suitable living situation, and are severely limited with what they can do. We’ve had homeless trans people shoot auditions in their cars with no one to read with them. We’d like to have a place they can shoot them with professional gear and professional quality off-camera readers, for example. It’s the old saying, “Give someone a fish and feed them for a day, teach someone to fish, and they can eat for a lifetime.” We’d like to see trans people get successful. Then, for the industry, we’re hoping our new consulting division will help provide a place for the industry to come to for advice on how to make authentic stories possible.
How, along the years, has the acting and modeling industry responding to transgender talents? Do you believe that today is it more inclusive?
The responses have varied. Some want to truly express accurate stories, while others think they know all about transgender lives after watching a short stage show with a trans performer in it. We’re much more than just someone putting on a show. Trans people live their lives 24/7 — we don’t take it off backstage and go out the door as someone else. So a writer needs to really do their homework before writing a role that’s trans. I’ve seen some really, really good scripts, such as one I just read by an Oscar-nominated writer who clearly spent years doing their homework. Others, well, they for sure, had no clue at the time. Inclusivity is a mixed bag. TV is becoming more inclusive. Modeling is gradually becoming more as well, and it’s clearly motivated by the customers the product lines are trying to attract. Some will not be more inclusive until their customers are. Film is way behind, but that’s partly due to not having transgender actors at that level to draw audiences yet. It is changing slowly, and we’re working hard to see that happen, helping projects have the support they need in their scripts and character development.
What are your thoughts on nontransgender talent acting as transgender characters? On a similar note, what are your thoughts on transgender talent acting as cis sexed characters?
I’ll answer the second question first. We’ve been getting trans actors into nontransgender roles since nearly the beginning of our company. Our first was Olivier Luciano playing the cisgender lead in an indie feature shot in I think it was 2016 or so. Since then, there have been many, with the most recent being Emmett Preciado playing Rowan in around 14 episodes of Good Trouble. What we have to remember is that depending on the study you cite, trans people are at most 2% of the population. If characters need to be relatable to audiences, then not many roles will be written as transgender, so our actors need to play cisgender characters to be successful in the long term. Plus, projects not focused on transgender plots or storylines might be subject to censorship in some parts of the world. So, to even be seen on many global screens, we need trans actors in cisgender roles, and they may end up being the first trans actors ever seen in some of those countries. That would be hugely inspiring to the closeted and hidden trans people in those countries. As for cisgender people playing transgender roles, well, that seems to be heading into the past overall. We need to get trans actors to the level where a trans actor can play a transgender lead, and the rest of the ensemble is played by cisgender actors of name who can bring the audience and hence, the investors.
How can people give support to the transgender community?
By treating us as normal human beings. We’re transgender because we’ve got physical issues we’re dealing with, but there’s far more to us than that. A person can also support us by standing up for us even in small ways, in your workplace, religious, political, social groups, and social media.
How have you been staying positive during the shelter in place? Are you back to normal now?
For me, the shelter in place just meant I had to go back to what I worked with, in pharmaceutical labs and medical labs. PPE was standard procedure in what is called a general precautions environment. (Hence anti-maskers don’t think through what they’re saying — if the masks do no good, then if they are going in for some surgery someday, they should be telling everyone not to follow surgical safety precautions either. No masks in the OR! Hah!). To be honest, shelter in place gave us some room to breathe and catch up. But now we’re farther behind, as things are now in overdrive with the increased demand for entertainment content. Hmm, maybe it’s because people are not having to spend two hours or more per day commuting?
What’s your motto in life?
Be authentic and never give up!
To keep up with Ann, you can follow her via the platforms below:
http://transgendertalent.com/
https://keychangeensemble.org/
EMMETT PRECIADO
Where are you based?
Los Angeles
What are your pronouns?
He, him
Could you tell us about your transition? Were the people in your life supportive?
I came out shortly after leaving BYU Idaho (Mormon Church School), and I lost a lot of friends through my transition. But for every person I lost, I gained ten people in my life who cared about me and gave me so much support. It was also hard for my parents and the rest of my family at first. But over time, they started to understand my reasons for transitioning, saw how much happier I was, and they have become more and more supportive over the years.
How did your transitioning help your mental health?
Before transitioning, suicide was a constant thought. My transition SAVED MY LIFE, and I have never once regretted transitioning.
You are an actor and a singer/songwriter. What inspired you to go into the arts. Do you have a first love between the two?
As I think is the case for many people, the arts became a safe haven for me and allowed me to escape reality. Acting as a kid allowed me to dress up and become other characters — anyone, but who I was at the time. I always volunteered to play the male characters if there wasn’t anyone to play them and felt the most comfortable and euphoric when I was allowed to wear “boy clothes.”
Music is another passion of mine, and I’ve been writing music since I was ten years old. Music has always been a way to express my deepest emotions, and most of my songs have been about depression. But now that I don’t experience depression daily as I did before transitioning, my songs are starting to take a more uplifting approach, which is a little weird for me. Depression was kind of my muse. But if I’m being honest, music will always be my first love.
You became a phenomenon and an inspiration with your TikTok video “I am flat.” The video has almost two million views. The duets show thousands of people sharing the same feelings you felt or that they wish to have one day. How did it feel when this video went viral? What’s your advice for these people?
I wasn’t expecting it to blow up in the way that it did. I intended to share a special moment, which — to this day — is one of THE happiest moments of my life: seeing my flat chest for the first time. I mean, I had wished for a flat chest since puberty. I literally used to pray to God and beg Him to change me into a boy on the outside. So this surgery was a dream come true, and I wanted to give hope to other transfolks out there. But I also wanted people to see that this is the joy that comes from transitioning. This is what gender euphoria feels like. And trust me, the surgery was worth it. The recovery was worth it. My mental health skyrocketed after top surgery.
Spoiler Alert: We loved your role in ABC’s Good Doctor series. You play a transgender patient with a tumor, but also with an unexpected pregnancy. Why do you think it is important to bring awareness to these cases? Especially the fact that transgender people can choose to continue a pregnancy, as your character does in the series?
I think there are so many stereotypes that need to be squashed. Why does carrying and giving birth to a child have to be a feminine experience only? If a man has the parts, and his mental health will allow him to carry a child, then, by all means, he should be able to do that.
I think the episode was important for bringing awareness to the world because that was/is someone’s story. There are transmen all over the globe who are LIVING at least part of that episode. It’s essential that doctors and people all over the world not only become familiar with transgender pregnancies but also normalize them.
How long have you been working with Ann and Transgender Talent? How has her work helped you?
I signed with Ann in the spring of 2019, so about two and a half years. I would not have had much of the success I have experienced without her. She has introduced me to some really incredible people who actually care about my mental health and my story as a trans individual. And she’s inspiring change within the industry which will help not only me, but also many transactors. Ann is a treasure trove of knowledge and wisdom, and I love learning from her. She is teaching and inspiring me constantly and helping shape my career, and I am so grateful to her for all the work she does.
How, along the years, has the acting and modeling industry responding to transgender talents? Do you believe that today is more inclusive?
There hasn’t been a lot of representation in the past, and I think it’s a combination of how different it was just ten years ago, even five years ago. Transgender people were (and still are) very misunderstood, and we were more or less the butt of every joke and not really seen as human beings. I think the industry is definitely starting to cast more inclusively now that more and more people are coming out and are openly trans in the industry.
What are your thoughts on nontransgender talent acting as transgender characters? On a similar note, what are your thoughts on transgender talent acting as cis sexed characters?
I have said this before, and I’ll repeat it. The majority of roles out there are written for cisgender characters/actors. I have loved having the opportunity to play both transgender and cisgender characters. I think it’s important to cast trans actors in both trans and cis roles. We are here. There’s tons of trans talent out there. If someone is transgender and capable of playing the part, why not cast them?
I know there’s a lot of controversy about whether or not cisgender actors should be cast in trans roles. Honestly, there are ultimately far fewer roles written explicitly for transgender actors, so I think those roles should be reserved for trans actors. But I also understand that casting is tricky, and sometimes the best actor for the role may not be trans - I have seen beautiful performances by cis actors. I think that if casting has done their absolute best in trying to find a trans actor, have exhausted all their options, and as long as trans people are being portrayed accurately, then it is fine to cast a cis actor.
I have loved playing cis characters and not necessarily worrying about gender identity, but instead focusing on playing the part and developing the character. And it’s been a privilege to play trans characters and help educate audiences on trans issues. The more trans people can become visible in TV and film, the more we can “normalize” the transgender community. And that’s so important to the health and safety of trans youth.
How can people give support to the transgender community?
Respect goes a long way. I personally would appreciate it if people would stop asking intrusive questions about my personal life. Most people wouldn’t ask a cisgender person who they barely know about their genitals, yet folks think it’s completely normal to ask trans people those questions. We’re people first. Please help us normalize being trans by not making a big deal out of us existing. And please support your trans friends when they experience bullying in any form.
How have you been staying positive during the shelter in place? Are you back to normal now?
Ah, will life ever be “back to normal”? I’m doing the best I can, which means a lot of exercises, listening to music, writing, and self-love. I’ve also been learning to say no to things that drain me and leave me feeling worse off. It’s been liberating just to do what makes me feel good and uplifted.
What’s your motto in life?
I have a whole list of mindset reminders on my phone to keep me on track. But my favorite: Everything Always Works Out. Also… the hugging smiley face emoji. 🤗
To learn more about Emmett, please follow him via the below platforms:
https://www.emmettpreciado.com
IMDb Profile: emmettpreciado
Instagram: emmettpreciado
TikTok: @emmettpreciado
ZOEY LUNA
Where are you based?
I'm based in California, born and raised!
What are your pronouns?
I go by she and her.
Could you tell us about your transition? Were the people in your life supportive?
My transition took time to start truly. I wasn't as supported as the world may think. My mom was accepting from the jump, but when your child is explaining that they identify in ways that have been very deadly for the others who felt similarly and, you're in a relationship with the father of your child who would much rather deny any of these feelings or beat them out of your child, it can cause a lot of stillness and stress. My mom never promised we'd be able to let me transition but, more so, she let me know she received what I was saying and would see what she could do. My father was the obstacle. When he passed away, it opened up the space for me to transition. By that time, I had let my mother know, "I'm transitioning, or I'm going to end my life."
Your story has been extremely public, from "Raising Zoey" to "Laverne Cox Presents: The T Word" finally to "15 A Quinceanera Story: Zoey". While so many transgender kids are hiding in the closet, how did it feel to have everything so extremely in the public? Did you feel supported?
Many people consider my mom educating herself on being transgender, finding lawyers to represent us against my school district for trying to illegally expel me because I am transgender, thinking she is doing what any parent should do regardless of how uncommon my story is, but it's not. These documentaries slightly touched the surface of my story. They captured, in my opinion, the most unimportant parts of my journey. My quince was fun, and I'm glad that I got to have it, that the world got to see me having friends and "people" in my life because that's the narrative we needed at the time but, I did not - in fact - feel supported. Nobody knew how I truly felt about the emotional betrayal behind the scenes. About the utter lack of genuine care from people who were supposed to be my caretakers, and how I spent most of my teen years depressed because the nicest moments I had with anyone were in front of a camera. I'm grateful for what came from it. It served a purpose but, I'd consider them movies.
Do you feel having your life so public has helped other LGBTQ+ youth?
I know how beneficial it was to see an image of a supporting family dynamic. There wasn't too much saturation in the media about those positive relationships, especially in the Latino community, so I'm honored for sure. I've heard the stories visibility helped many people out, and I'm glad it's a reference point out there.
Laverne Cox is a huge transgender icon. What was it like working with her?
Laverne is so good at what she does, and she is such an inspiring presence. Working with her was a thrill.
Your most recent documentary was HBO's 15: A Quinceañera. Please tell us, what's "Quinceañera" and why is it so important for you, especially as a transgender Latin woman?
A Quinceañera is a Mexican tradition held for young girls on their 15th birthday to symbolize becoming a woman. It was always important for me to fulfill that fantasy of being celebrated for my growth as a girl because it's a heritage thing. Because I, as a woman, deserve to experience what any other woman has been afforded.
You were pretty young when you did your transition. How is the acceptance of transgender people in the Latin Community and as a teen in school?
Well, although I can only speak on my experience, and I can't necessarily sum up what it's like for the majority of others like me, from what I've heard, it varies. To make a general statement, I'm sure it's not easy for any, and I think that's what builds a lot of resilience in our community, speaking positively, of course.
What are your thoughts on transitioning at a younger age?
I like to say that I came out of my mother's womb knowing two things; 1: I'm a girl, and 2: I'm a movie star. So regardless of what I think anyone should be doing with their bodies, I genuinely support transitioning at any age you feel inclined to do so.
Ok, we have to talk about "The Craft: Legacy." Were you a fan of the first movie? What was it like continuing the story?
I initially postponed entirely, giving it a chance throughout the many times it was brought up into my life as a child because something about it never fully resonated at first glance. Maybe it was the wig, the Charmed theme song, or the emphasis on being different that made me question its value but, once asked to audition for the reboot, I gave it my full undivided attention and instantly fell in love. Once I saw the bright yellow letters in the sky spelling out "The Craft," I knew I misjudged it, and that I needed to expand upon this cinematic universe.
You also recently directed in and starred in You Will be Found from Dear Evan Hansen. Can you tell us a bit about this project and why it is important to you?
It was important for me because I wanted to showcase the many talents of Transgender Talent's roster. I really enjoyed my cameo in Dear Evan Hansen and felt inspired by the music, so I knew I wanted to create my little spin on it.
How long have you been working with Ann and Transgender Talent? How has her work helped you?
I've known Ann since I was invited to speak on the Dr. Drew show by her, personally, when I was 14. We had been running in the same social circles for years, and I officially asked her to represent me when The Craft Legacy had approached me. She's helped me financially, emotionally, and career-wise. This woman does it all.
How, along the years, has the acting and modeling industry responding to transgender talents? Do you believe that today is more inclusive?
Today there is definitely a positive attempt at becoming more inclusive. I think many of us slipped into the cracks ,and made it because of cisgender presenting how we sought out to be, in order to have a seat in these cis, white, and heterosexual predominant tables. Now I feel like I am seeing a wave of people in all shapes, sizes, and colors being included, and this gives me even more hope that one day, questions like these won't need to be asked.
What are your thoughts on nontransgender talent acting as transgender characters? On a similar note, what are your thoughts on transgender talent acting as cis sexed characters?
I'm not fond of it, trans people have spent most of their lives assimilating into a cisgender culture to survive, and for some reason, people didn't see that as years of acting training? I don't believe that there were many excellent or reputable excuses for not having trans people play trans roles. On the contrary, I do think more trans people should play cisgender roles. Maybe then ignorant audience viewers will stop murdering us because they'll finally see us as the girls and boys we are. Maybe if there are fewer cis men in wigs and thongs pretending to be transgender women, they'll finally stop seeing us as men in wigs and thongs.
How can people give support to the transgender community?
I think people could support the transgender and nonbinary community altogether by remembering that we are human — not trying to poke holes in our alleged tent, just to see if we're real or not, just so they can invalidate something they've denied within themselves, and by going to therapy.
How have you been staying positive during the shelter in place? Are you back to normal now?
The pandemic isn't what scared me. The effect it had on my world at the time did it. Following rules and accomplishing basic hygiene has always come naturally to me. So staying positive in this situation was a little difficult considering that everything I had been conditioned to do all my life was now being met with change, rather rapid change. At first, I kept telling myself that this virus would be over before I knew it, that it would not affect me, and that I could rest easy knowing my situation was set. That worked for a total of five minutes. I was out one night at a drive-thru when through, a split second chance, I saw a woman trying to open the dining-room door — for context, it was night and heavily raining. I saw this look of frustration release on her face when she had realized the doors were locked, and I had just assumed she didn't want to go through the long drive-thru line and simply wanted to order inside the establishment. However, as I was leaving, I soon began to realize she is homeless. Yeah, sure, Covid was a scary thing for me, a semi-privileged child, to endure because my world was changing but, what really made me cope was knowing that my world isn't the only world that could be affected. Now, my world is nothing like the world I once considered normal, and I'm humbled by this change. I would never go back to the matrix.
What's your motto in life?
The life you want is behind every door you're hesitant to open.
To keep up with Zoey, please follow her below Instagram:
@iamzoeyluna