What is better than nerding out crime shows? Nerding out on funny crime shows! There is a reason why Drunk History and comedic news shows have become so popular. People want to learn, but why not make it fun! That’s exactly what Patrick Hinds and Gillian Pensavalle did with their podcast True Crime Obsessed! And to add a little glitter to the mix, unlike other crime shows, which focus on cis-heterosexual crime, these two cover a lot of LGBTQ+ issues. To learn more about this fascinating podcast, please read our exclusive interview below.

Where are you based?
We live in New York City and record the podcast in a studio in midtown Manhattan.

How did you two connect and decide to do a podcast together?
GILLIAN: Like I always say, the genesis of “True Crime Obsessed” is what is at the base of everyone’s interest in true crime: Broadway. Patrick and I both had Broadway podcasts (Patrick had “Theater People” and “Broadway Backstory” and I have, and still produce, “The Hamilcast: A Hamilton Podcast” on a weekly basis), so we met through the theatre world. We became friends and started meeting up for happy hour a few times a week, and suddenly our Broadway conversations transformed into true crime conversations. One day I had this idea to start a true crime podcast solving the Zodiac case. I took it really seriously and called Patrick and pitched him the idea. We met up the next day, I ended up going to the library (a la Robert Graysmith), and even made a logo for it.

But then we - smartly - realized that we weren’t up to the task. There are much more qualified people to solve that case, so we scrapped that specific idea, but still wanted to do a true crime podcast.

PATRICK: I had really wanted to make a super smarty-pants / NPR-ish podcast in three segments: an interview segment, a review segment, and a true crime news segment (whatever that means!). We actually recorded a pilot episode that had all three segments. When we sat down to record the ‘review’ segment, we were talking about the documentary The Imposter which tells the story of the disappearance of a 13-year-old boy named Nicholas Barclay and THE FULL GROWN 23-YEAR-OLD MAN who pretended to be Nicholas three years after Nicholas’s disappearance. As we were talking, Gillian was cracking me up with her commentary about the idiot private detective, the FRENCH, 23-YEAR-OLD imposter who the Barclay family fully believed was the missing 13-year-old American. When we were done, I realized that if we could find a way to provide truly hilarious commentary on true crime documentaries while at the same time being advocates for the victims and NEVER laughing at the actual crime, we could create something that had truly never been done before in the podcast space. And thus, True Crime Obsessed was born.

Where does the name “True Crime Obsessed” come from?
PATRICK: Here’s the sort of technical / boring answer: We wanted the words “True Crime” to be super prominent in the title so people would know right away what our podcast was about. And I feel like we used the word “Obsessed” because we are obsessed with true crime, but also, it’s sort of a weird word that stands out and maybe implies a little bit of sass and cheekiness. Wow, we really were trying to get a lot done with the title, weren’t we? But also, the title “Check Out This Podcast Where Two Broadway Loving Theater Nerds Recap True Crime Documentaries You’ve Maybe Never Heard Of And I Swear It’s Funny” was too long for Apple Podcasts.

GILLIAN: What Patrick said! I remember us sitting in some coffee shop (or bar? probably a bar) and throwing names back and forth and feverishly Googling them to see if they existed and if they didn’t, we’d see if the domain name was available. We were just full steam ahead before we even knew what we wanted to *be*!

Can you tell us about your process for selecting topics for each episode?
GILLIAN: There are a lot of factors. From a production standpoint, we look for documentaries that hover around the 90-minute mark. We learned the hard way that the longer a documentary is, the harder it is for us to cover in a concise and straightforward way. We also try to mix up the topic, so to speak. Not just for variety, but for our own mental health. It’s hard to live in this super dark headspace, so if we’ve had a long few weeks of murder and assault and kidnapping, we’ll take a breather with something like an art heist or jewel thieves or a politician’s downfall. We also want to tell stories that aren’t as well known, as a way to bring awareness to people and community and cases. We’ve covered a lot of LGBTQ+ documentaries because that is one of the many communities that is often overlooked in the true crime genre.

PATRICK: Yeah, I’ll just add that we always hope for interesting characters. Whether it’s corrupt cops from Queens or Tammy Faye Bakker, we always like when we can feature strange, ridiculous, or just downright hilarious personalities. This is not a requirement, obviously, but it can make for a great vocal impression from Gillian which almost always results in me scream-laughing and falling on the floor.

Photo by Curtis and Cort Photography.

You initially started doing podcasts with a focus on Broadway and theatre legends. What compelled you to transition from theatre to crime?
PATRICK: By the time Gillian and I met, I was ready to move on from the Broadway podcasts I had made. I’d been working on Broadway podcasts for several years—it was amazingly rewarding, but I wanted to move on to making a podcast that might have broader appeal. I loved true crime and true crime podcasts, so I knew that was something I wanted to do. I was also looking to make something with a partner, which was something I’d never done up to that point. So when I met Gillian and we realized we both loved podcasting AND true crime, it seemed like the perfect time to take the leap into the world of true crime podcasts.

GILLIAN: So, I started “The Hamilcast” without having seen Hamilton or having listened to podcasts or even having podcast equipment. And yes, I know how insane that sounds. I had this intense urge to make this podcast about this thing I love without even knowing how to do it. I threw myself into the deepest end of the pool and started treading water to figure it out, and it’s been an exciting learning process since day one. One thing I really learned, though, was to pay attention to your gut when it says THAT! DO THAT! MAKE THAT! And that’s why I took it really seriously when I called Patrick and said, “I don’t know what it is but I want to make a true crime podcast and I want it to be with you.”

Your podcast focuses on various crime documentaries, yet you manage to enlighten listeners through hilarious commentary as you incorporate comedy and humor into the grave nature of such serious topics. Is there a reason as to why you take this approach?
PATRICK: The comedy approach was completely organic—we never meant to make a comedy podcast. As I mentioned, I’d wanted to make a nerdy NPR-style podcast where we talked super smartly about the documentary’s cinematography and the themes and the rest of it. In the beginning, I actually fought against the humor when it came up, I wasn’t sure it was appropriate. But when it dawned on me that the things I found funny were how completely enraged we were at the crimes or the mistakes made by the lawyers or cops, I realized it was fine and we decided to lean into it. We’re really never trying to be funny. But I’m glad we’re able to find laughs because it makes these stories more palatable, and it’s important that people know these stories.

GILLIAN: Exactly. Making a comedy podcast was never our intention, but I think people connect to the anger and confusion and passion we both feel because they feel it too. They want to scream about this case they just watched a documentary about and their co-workers and friends don’t want to hear it or just don’t care as much. And to be clear: we are never laughing about murder or assault or kidnapping or anything awful. We are doing what we can to tell the stories with respect and clarity, but also protecting our own mental health. If that means we have to drag a bad cop or do an impression of the hapless but well meaning neighbor or fall in love with a badass lawyer, so be it.

Patrick, you are one of the few LGBTQ+ voices in true crime. Can you tell us more about your experience and some of the challenges that you have come across?
PATRICK: You know, one of the reasons I wanted to get into podcasting in general (all the way back in 2009) was because I wasn’t hearing many podcasters that sounded like me—unabashedly gay—and I wanted to change that. I was making Broadway podcasts at the time, so being and sounding unabashedly gay was a great fit! When Gillian and I decided to make a true crime podcast, it really was a question for me—would people be turned off by my tone of voice and the fact that “girl” is every other word out of my mouth. Honestly, at the time, I didn’t know of a single true crime podcast with and LGBTQ host (I’m not saying there wasn’t one, I just didn’t know of any!), so I was very curious to see how it was going to go. From the very first episode, our audience embraced me, and as we became better known, the true crime podcasting community has really embraced me / us as well, which has been truly thrilling. One of my greatest joys in making “True Crime Obsessed” with Gillian is the fact that we’re able to cover documentaries that tell the stories of the LGBTQ community. Whether It’s The Death and Life of Marsha P. Johnson, about the beloved trans activist / icon who was murdered in NYC in 1992, or Matthew Shepard Is A Friend of Mine, about the young man who was murdered in Wyoming in 1998 for being gay, it is a true honor to share these stories and to keep the conversations about them going.

There are several episodes that focus specifically on LGBTQ crimes. Why is it so important to share these stories of the LGBTQ community?
PATRICK: Being a member of the LGBT community, I am really happy to be able to share the stories from my community. Because we’ve come a long way with LGBT equality in the past several years, people might think that the world has gotten easier for us—and in some ways it certainly has. But the LGBT community lives with violence every day—especially the Trans community—and those crimes are under-reported and under-covered. So if we can help bring those stories to a wide audience, it is our pleasure and responsibility to do it.

GILLIAN: I’m cis-het but have grown up around members of the LGBTQ community my whole life. When it comes down to it, I’m honestly just happy to be here to help tell these stories, keep learning and educating myself, and add my voice to the chorus of allies out there.

Do you find these crimes to be be very different from cis gender/heterosexual crimes?
PATRICK: It’s not so much that the crimes are different, but I think we know that crimes against anyone who isn’t white, straight, wealthy, and attractive get less attention. So we try to use our platform to help tell these stories.

GILLIAN: The more documentaries you cover, the more you see a trend of what stories get the most attention. When the situation allows and there’s a documentary that is suitable for us to cover, we do our best to shine a light on the stories that haven’t been told as much.

What are some difficulties you face in hosting a podcast centered around crime documentaries? Was there a particularly difficult crime to cover?
PATRICK: In the beginning, we had a hard time explaining what our podcast was in a sentence or two. Like, writing our Instagram and Twitter bios was a nightmare. We wanted to get across that we recap documentaries, but we’re also super fun, I swear! And we’re a comedy podcast, but we’re respectful of victims and we’re never laughing at murder! It was like, how do we explain what we do without making it one long lame apology? But with the help of some smart people, we’ve figured it out. We always find it difficult to cover anything with kids, so for me, Abducted in Plain Sight was a tough one. But the film was brilliant and it was just shocking revelation after shocking revelation AND we knew from the beginning the kid at the center of it was OK. That’s how you do it, filmmakers! Let us know everyone survived and the journey will be easier to follow!

GILLIAN: Some of the topics have been really, really tough. There’s Something Wrong with Aunt Diane and Dear Zachary always come to mind for me, as well as anything dealing with a wrongful conviction. Oh, and I can’t handle anyone being even remotely mean to animals. I hated the person at the center of Thought Crimes: The Case of the Cannibal Cop because he absolutely despised women and detailed all the horrible (HORRIBLE) things he wanted to do to us and acted like it wasn’t a big deal. I don’t like giving him any credit because he’s such a derp, but that documentary made me utterly furious.

Photo by Curtis and Cort Photography.

What are some of your favorite episodes? Are there any crimes that particularly stand out for you?
GILLIAN: I’m a born and raised New Yorker so I loved covering The Seven Five, about corrupt NYC cops back in the 70s. It was a lot of absurdity, a lot of over the top accents, and no one was raped or murdered. It was just a wild ride and one of the rare times true crime was actually fun.

PATRICK: I have a soft spot for all of our LGBTQ episodes, like the ones I mentioned earlier, and also How to Survive A Plague about the AIDS crisis and The Times of Harvey Milk. But I also love our episode on Grizzly Man about a man who spent fifteen years living with the bears in the Alaskan wilderness, and I LOVE our two episodes on Oxygen’s The Disappearance of Maura Murray.

Your podcast now has over a hundred episodes. What are some key takeaways you have learned on your journey and passion for true crime?
PATRICK: Always ask for a lawyer IMMEDIATELY, never take the polygraph, the husband almost always did it (I said ALMOST), if you insist on going to live with bears, they’re probably going to eat you at some point.

GILLIAN: One word: LAWYER.

Do you find there are some consistencies you come across in the crimes?
PATRICK: I honestly don’t understand how before DNA and the internet anybody was ever convicted of anything. FINGERPRINTS? THAT’S WHAT WE HAD TO WORK WITH? Now it seems like getting away with anything would be impossible. I don’t know if that answered the question, but I really needed to get that fingerprint thing off my chest.

GILLIAN: I mean, you can see a coerced confession from a mile away. I feel like when it comes to the system railroading people we often say something like, “we’ve seen this a hundred times!” because unfortunately, it’s true. But on the other side of the coin, you can spot the Hero Lawyers or Hero Cops or Hero Whoevers from a mile away too. More heroes, please!

After all your, let’s say, research, do you two think you could solve a crime?
PATRICK: Absolutely not. And God help anyone who is relying on me to.

GILLIAN: Absolutely. I’m an excellent Googler and I own the complete Columbo series on DVD.

You also do live shows with your podcast. Can you tell us more about your last show in Brooklyn? What can fans generally expect? Where can we see you next?
GILLIAN: We made our debut at the Bell House! It’s always fun doing shows on our home turf (well, home turf adjacent) and it was the first time we did a show with other people on stage with us! We teamed up with The Maura Murray Boys™ Lance Reenstierna and Tim Pilleri, who made the Missing Maura Murray podcast, and Maggie Freleng, who hosted Oxygen's The Disappearance of Maura Murray, which also featured Tim and Lance. We covered the Oxygen series on the podcast and it's just over the top and very Oxygen-y so we had fun talking about the case and... kinda teasing them a little bit about it. But it was all in good fun!

PATRICK: Yeah, when we covered the Oxygen documentary series on the podcast, I became OBSESSED with Maggie and the boys. We got to meet and hang out with them at CrimeCon this past year and so when they agreed to do a live show with us, I was SUPER excited, but I made it clear that the show was going to mostly be Gillian and me making fun of them. Our live shows are CRAZY—super high energy, super fun and funny, AND our listeners are DRINKERS, so it’s also always a party. This show at the Bell House was exactly that. For Gillian and me, it was the last show on our 2019 tour and it was the freaking BELL HOUSE, which is where all my hero-podcasts have done their live shows, so it was a HUGE honor to be there and to be sold out there. It was just incredible.

Do you have any shows coming up?
PATRICK: We’re in the process of putting together our 2020 live tour, so stay tuned!

GILLIAN: What Patrick said!

Where can people listen to “True Crime Obsessed?”
Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also stream episodes at www.truecrimeobsessed.com

To learn more about True Crime Obsessed please follow them via the below:
WEBSITE: www.truecrimeobsessed.com
TWITTER: @truecrimeobsess @patrickhinds @gillianwithag
INSTAGRAM: @Truecrimeobsessedpodcast @patrickhinds_ @gillianwithag